Post-completion

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Post-completion

Post  Mimodo on Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:10 am

Ok, I know that we are a long way off completion of the city, if we ever do fully have a "finished product", but my mind is going crazy with ideas, and I'm bored on a train right now :p

So, I've got a few ideas for what to do once we finally complete the construction of our city (did we decide on mons domus?). Anyway, I don't want to just let the MCdwarves break up and go their separate ways after we are done here, but if you so choose, by all means, feel free. But what can we do once we finish? There's a few options...

1: Create a large empire, with multiple cities. Open the server up to the public, and create a trading economy with different restrictions on each civilization, enforcing the need for trade, whilst also shaping the individual civilizations. We can continue to build as we have, expanding our city, whilst others come on to build up their own civilization. This would require increasing the server size, and having a large number of people. This would mean everyone would need to get into advertising the server. With a larger server we may end up relying on small donations every so often, to keep the server alive. 

2: We find a random faction server, preferably a big one, and all run off into the distance. There we set up a base, and together we build and take on the other larger factions. It's a completely different type of challenge, and I would suggest reading "the art of war" on the minecraft forums, by "Valerious Maximus". This might give you the inspiration to take on such a thing. So far we have become a fairly well working group, and that gives us a big advantage over other factions. We have our own method of private communicating, which enables us to coordinate things better, and we have numbers, which means we can mostly have at least one player guarding the base, and all our resources. I like this idea, as I've always wanted to actually PLAY in a military type thing, rather than just controlling it (example - age of empires). 

3:move onto another project. We will upload the world file, so those who participated in the build can have a hard copy of what we made. Then, either close down the server, and start again with a new project, or keep the server running, and also make another one for the new project (I want to avoid having two separate projects on the same map). This again, would end up being costly for me and sret... (I think I'll be paying for the next 3 months of the server, of for the new server). If we were to choose this option, here are a few ideas for new projects:

a) Elven forest:
The earth is shifting. The ground has begun to move, and the dwarven empire is crumbling. Constant earthquakes are causing cave-ins all over the place, crushing dwarves digging in the mines, and blocking off major supply and transit routes. Toxic gasses are escaping from deep within the earth, resulting in illnesses which mean certain death. The flourishing empire of the dwarves has collapsed, and all that is left are a small number of survivors. They run to the surface, braving the terrors of the night, knowing that it is the only way to survive. As the last few dwarves travel, searching refuge, more and more fall to the disease of those gasses from within the earth. 

With just a few of the survivors left, they discover a tree, who's leaves have the ability to cure this illness. Finally, the last of their civilization has found salvation. They start by living near that tree, and over time, they again, are forced to adapt. They become one with nature, and worship the tree that saved their kind. As it grows, they sow the seeds of that one saviour tree, creating a large forest, with that tree towering over the centre of the forest. 

Hey, I said I was bored :p and it is a lead in story... Basically we go from dwarves to elves. Instead of living underground, we live in trees... We don't bother mining, as the stone is dangerous, and all things nature are what we use. We will have one centre tree, and due to the increased height limit, this can be GIGANTIC, in proportion to the scale of our current city. That's the basic idea Wink 

b) Floating city:
No lead in story sorry... Basically, we can begin at layer 128, and build a giant floating city. Light and tall towers, high arches... A light and fluffy build, high in the sky... The city of angels? (idk, maybe too corny). I'm a little fuzzy on this, and i don't like the idea as much as the first, but it is a viable suggestion. 

c) Ancient Egyptian style:
We move into a massive desert, and build another huge city based on ancient egyptian architecture, temples, tombs, pyramids, you get the idea. If needed we can create an artificial desert to expand the one we start with. Make a river which supplies water to the civilization. 

Also think about it economically too. Make it so that if it was made realistically, then would we survive? So for example, the farms need to be near the river, or perhaps channels from the river to irrigate. Don't make it exactly like Egypt (so no 'annual flooding' of the river), but make it a realistically sustainable Egyptian style build. 

Anyway, this is a long way off, but they are all ideas. If anyone has other ideas for after, add them in too, as there are a billion options. Hope you enjoyed your reading Wink (especially if you read the art of war too)

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Re: Post-completion

Post  spectrumwars on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:32 am

1.) Build a long railroad in the Nether. Build a portal at the end of it. Emerge from portal in the overworld somewhere very far from Mons Domus. Start a new Dwarf Colony there. Bring the occasional storage cart train of materials over from Mons Domus, or send "tribute" back to our original home. Either way, we start a new city, incorporating from the start the concepts and systems we have developed and all the lessons we have learned from building our old one.

2.) Emerge, blinking, into the sunlight. Use the massive amount of cobble we have accumulated in chests to design and build a truly massive medieval-style fortress complex above-ground.

3.) Build a Block Museum. But instead of one example of every type of block and item...accumulate a double chest of everything we can possibly create or collect in the game. Several individuals are doing it on their own, as can be seen in a thread I've been following on the official MC forums. A server like ours that already has a good start should be able to do it together.

4.) Update the server and start a new map taking advantage of the new terrain generation algorithm. Find an NPC village. Turn it into an NPC city. Add hundreds of houses to it, thousands of houses. Create large public squares, a city hall, a cathedral, other public buildings, and a wall around the whole thing, patrolled by snow and iron golems as well as our own player forces. Defend a city of thousands of villagers from the predations of zombies.
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Re: Post-completion

Post  Brendanan on Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:13 am

I've never made a castle before, but I've always wanted to... I got a design for the entrance...

And I like the idea of npc city
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Re: Post-completion

Post  sret on Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:42 am

This thread just makes me wanna start a new project instead of finishing this one.

I actually read that art of war thread, as it was the only SMP I ever applied to join. I got accepted but got cold feet and never played on it. I don't remember anything either.


I like the floating city idea, much because I'm a bit sick of limitations (no wood in dwarven city, no stone in elven) and that's the one idea you presented that doesn't have them.

The NPC city sounds really cool as it would make the place so alive. Wouldn't it lag a lot, though?

But in my opinion we shouldn't try any of the other ideas until we've used our ridiculous amounts of cobble to build something on our current world.

Oh, btw, if we ever wanna do some kind of thing involving another faction I know this australian guy who told me him and his friends are a close group who likes to join servers to build up and dominate them. They'd definitely be interested in doing something.


Edit: As of right now, all our world has is a dwarven civilization. I don't see why we couldn't use all our cobble to form another kind of civilization to continue building this world. Why would we want a new world for new projects? They could all co-exist in this world, making it grand and more alive.
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Re: Post-completion

Post  spectrumwars on Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:59 am

sret wrote:I actually read that art of war thread, as it was the only SMP I ever applied to join. I got accepted but got cold feet and never played on it. I don't remember anything either.

I remember reading the Art of War Thread many months ago. It's probably changed a lot since then, what with potions and enchanting. It sounded interesting in an academic sort of way, but I much prefer player cooperation against the environment and its hazards (mobs, etc.) over player-vs-player combat. Why fight someone if you CAN make friends with them? There's plenty of idiotic-AI creatures out there physically incapable of negotiating peace with us. Why not join forces with those who ARE capable of such cooperation, against those who aren't? The whole idea of serious PvP combat offends me on a philosophical level, in an odd sort of way.

sret wrote:The NPC city sounds really cool as it would make the place so alive. Wouldn't it lag a lot, though?

Depends on how dense we make it. But there are over a hundred passive mobs in the Dwarf City farms at any given moment, I doubt it would get much worse lag-wise than that.

sret wrote:Oh, btw, if we ever wanna do some kind of thing involving another faction I know this australian guy who told me him and his friends are a close group who likes to join servers to build up and dominate them. They'd definitely be interested in doing something.

And you can trust them to not try and build up and dominate US?

sret wrote:Edit: As of right now, all our world has is a dwarven civilization. I don't see why we couldn't use all our cobble to form another kind of civilization to continue building this world. Why would we want a new world for new projects? They could all co-exist in this world, making it grand and more alive.

I'd be all for it, if an update hadn't already come out that changes the terrain generation algorithm and adds new features that require a new world to fully enable. The day before the update came out, I was travelling, so unable to log in here...so I played my single-player game. I discovered an abandoned mineshaft tunnel that had two cave spider spawners 5 blocks apart in the same hallway...and right down the hall, about 20 blocks away, was a Zombie Dungeon. All on the same level, nearly. A practically perfect setup for a TRIPLE spawner XP grinder! And in a chest in that zombie dungeon were both pumpkin and melon seeds, neither of which had I found yet on that world up to that point. The next day, the update hit, and I started a new world and never looked back. Jungle biomes, ocelots/cats, and a new terrain system meant I needed a new world, and so I started one right away.

But frankly, we can probably find enough improvements and expansions to add to our existing city that we won't get quite bored enough to start over until the NEXT restart-requiring update to the vanilla game. In the meantime, we can even try out some concepts intended to be fully implemented on the new world, if and when we make one.
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Re: Post-completion

Post  Brendanan on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:11 pm

I see great ideas, so I'll comment properly when I get home
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Re: Post-completion

Post  Brendanan on Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:06 pm

No sret, we are not starting a new thing yet! I think that's the problem though. People like to start things, but don't like to finish the small details to say something is complete... And that's where my perfectionist nature comes out and goes crazy :p

As SW said, the server has its mobs up there anyway... With about 100 always sitting there, and sometimes up to 400 around when someone is grinding, I think we are fine...

I've already been convinced about not removing the server. Im thinking we do ALL of them. Especially the NPC village one. We go on a mass recruitment campaign, and get a few more dedicated players, and perhaps a build them all at once, cooperating over the different civilizations. 

We create an elven home in a pre existing forest. We find a far off npc village, and turn it into a city. We build a floating city above the ocean. Perhaps we build a castle for the far off human king. 

That way we will have dwarves, elves, humans, squidwards, and (flying race here), all living together. 

Perhaps we could all take leadership of different areas. There's about 10 of us at the moment, give or take, so if we work in pairs, as me and sret have been doing (which worked great to get this up and going... Would have been impossible for me to successfully do), we can all take a particular civilization. I can create either a new forum, or new sections within this. We gather new players, both from the group thing (we need a name for this massive empire), and then players can recruit for their individual cities. 

We will still all work together, and I'll try and oversee things, as I have here, but whoever takes the individual tasks will do all the planning and organising of that section. 

We will need to make things a fair way apart, so as not to be able to see the others just over the hills, so people will need to focus on mainly one civilisation, and only move around rarely. Maybe splated could make us a large underground rail system that stops a short distance from each different place, to make travel easier (just said splated because he's pretty much taken it upon himself to be our railway engineer). 

Now, one last thing... 

You say you don't like PvP, and you would rather work with people to team up on mobs, because they're not capable of making alliances wit you etc. I kinda see that like you're picking on the weak. It's like teaming up with all your friends, who are great at say basketball (an example), to completely destroy a group of 5 year olds trying to have a fun game in their back yard. 

Think of PvP on that scale like a game of chess. It ends up becoming a little more than just bash the other guy on the head, if done well. You put strategy into the mindless head bashing of the other guy, and it can actually turn out to be a whole lot more fun that picking on the stupid zombies and their exploding mates. You get the challenge of going against someone who quite possibly has the same mental abilities, or better than you, and you need to think a lot about your moves, and how you play...

Of course, this all needs to be done in good spirit too
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Re: Post-completion

Post  sret on Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:21 pm

spectrumwars wrote:

I remember reading the Art of War Thread many months ago. It's probably changed a lot since then, what with potions and enchanting. It sounded interesting in an academic sort of way, but I much prefer player cooperation against the environment and its hazards (mobs, etc.) over player-vs-player combat. Why fight someone if you CAN make friends with them? There's plenty of idiotic-AI creatures out there physically incapable of negotiating peace with us. Why not join forces with those who ARE capable of such cooperation, against those who aren't? The whole idea of serious PvP combat offends me on a philosophical level, in an odd sort of way.

That is odd indeed, sounds overly peaceful. The idea is that people bring a whole other challenge. Quite frankly I'm not a big fan of pvp in Minecraft though. I love certain games focused on pvp but Minecraft is so much more and I don't like pvp ruining those aspects.

spectrumwars wrote:

And you can trust them to not try and build up and dominate US?

That'd kinda be the point.. Whatever idea we came up with I don't see why they wouldn't wanna stick to it, especially if it was on our server where we can kick them out if they stab us in the back.

spectrumwars wrote:
I'd be all for it, if an update hadn't already come out that changes the terrain generation algorithm and adds new features that require a new world to fully enable. The day before the update came out, I was travelling, so unable to log in here...so I played my single-player game. I discovered an abandoned mineshaft tunnel that had two cave spider spawners 5 blocks apart in the same hallway...and right down the hall, about 20 blocks away, was a Zombie Dungeon. All on the same level, nearly. A practically perfect setup for a TRIPLE spawner XP grinder! And in a chest in that zombie dungeon were both pumpkin and melon seeds, neither of which had I found yet on that world up to that point. The next day, the update hit, and I started a new world and never looked back. Jungle biomes, ocelots/cats, and a new terrain system meant I needed a new world, and so I started one right away.

But frankly, we can probably find enough improvements and expansions to add to our existing city that we won't get quite bored enough to start over until the NEXT restart-requiring update to the vanilla game. In the meantime, we can even try out some concepts intended to be fully implemented on the new world, if and when we make one.

I really hate that I need to start a new world for jungles. I want to stick to my single worlds forever but with the addition of jungles I'm forced to abandon mine.
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Re: Post-completion

Post  sret on Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:29 pm

Brendanan wrote:No sret, we are not starting a new thing yet! I think that's the problem though. People like to start things, but don't like to finish the small details to say something is complete... And that's where my perfectionist nature comes out and goes crazy :p

As SW said, the server has its mobs up there anyway... With about 100 always sitting there, and sometimes up to 400 around when someone is grinding, I think we are fine...

I've already been convinced about not removing the server. Im thinking we do ALL of them. Especially the NPC village one. We go on a mass recruitment campaign, and get a few more dedicated players, and perhaps a build them all at once, cooperating over the different civilizations. 

We create an elven home in a pre existing forest. We find a far off npc village, and turn it into a city. We build a floating city above the ocean. Perhaps we build a castle for the far off human king. 

That way we will have dwarves, elves, humans, squidwards, and (flying race here), all living together. 

Perhaps we could all take leadership of different areas. There's about 10 of us at the moment, give or take, so if we work in pairs, as me and sret have been doing (which worked great to get this up and going... Would have been impossible for me to successfully do), we can all take a particular civilization. I can create either a new forum, or new sections within this. We gather new players, both from the group thing (we need a name for this massive empire), and then players can recruit for their individual cities. 

We will still all work together, and I'll try and oversee things, as I have here, but whoever takes the individual tasks will do all the planning and organising of that section. 

We will need to make things a fair way apart, so as not to be able to see the others just over the hills, so people will need to focus on mainly one civilisation, and only move around rarely. Maybe splated could make us a large underground rail system that stops a short distance from each different place, to make travel easier (just said splated because he's pretty much taken it upon himself to be our railway engineer). 

Now, one last thing... 

Of course, this all needs to be done in good spirit too


I like that idea sooo much! I'd love to be able to work on the city that suits me best along with only 1 or 2 guys that I work well with. Our current system really killed my motivation and rendered me worthless once we got far into it and it's killing me. =<

Perhaps we can have a huge central train station somewhere that has tracks towards every different city and where it stops (near the cities) there's a neutral temple or something.
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Re: Post-completion

Post  spectrumwars on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Brendanan wrote:I've already been convinced about not removing the server. Im thinking we do ALL of them. Especially the NPC village one. We go on a mass recruitment campaign, and get a few more dedicated players, and perhaps a build them all at once, cooperating over the different civilizations. 

You'll have to raise the current 8-player cap then.

Brendanan wrote:We create an elven home in a pre existing forest. We find a far off npc village, and turn it into a city. We build a floating city above the ocean. Perhaps we build a castle for the far off human king. 

That way we will have dwarves, elves, humans, squidwards, and (flying race here), all living together.

Hawkmen. The Hawkmen from Flash Gordon. Preferably the cheesy 1980 version with Brian Blessed.  Anyone we recruit with a cape, they go there.

Brendanan wrote:We will need to make things a fair way apart, so as not to be able to see the others just over the hills, so people will need to focus on mainly one civilisation, and only move around rarely. Maybe splated could make us a large underground rail system that stops a short distance from each different place, to make travel easier (just said splated because he's pretty much taken it upon himself to be our railway engineer). 

He does seem to be the master of stations. But actual tracks, anyone can build....and with the distances involved here, everyone will have to help. I guess we could take Dwarf City and make it sort of the central hub, where people can come with a few storage carts and a furnace cart in their inventory, and return at the head of a train full of cobble...or show up with a train full of, say, Sand or Snow or Wool or Netherrack or Wood, to exchange with other civilizations in biomes where certain materials are hard to come by.

Brendanan wrote:You say you don't like PvP, and you would rather work with people to team up on mobs, because they're not capable of making alliances wit you etc. I kinda see that like you're picking on the weak. It's like teaming up with all your friends, who are great at say basketball (an example), to completely destroy a group of 5 year olds trying to have a fun game in their back yard. 

I see it more like allying with the elves and dwarves against the Orcs. In DnD terms, Creepers and Zombies are Always Chaotic Evil, they can't be reasoned with or bribed or anything. If a player pisses me off sufficiently, I'd rather see him ban-kicked off the server than fight him. If he hasn't pissed me off sufficiently...why am I trying to kill him, again?

Don't get me wrong, in actual wargames, I enjoy facing off against an intelligent human opponent. But Minecraft is about mining and building and trying to survive in a hostile environment. It's a game made for cooperative play, and PvP just doesn't seem suited to it. Wasting hard-won resources on killing friends who are just gonna respawn anyways is, well, a waste of time.

Besides, PvP in our environment will have little to do with strategy, and lots to do with who the Gods of Lag and Packet Loss will favor today. It's annoying enough having my perfectly aimed sword swipes go right through a slime who then jumps on my head and kills me. I don't have to endure the slime taunting me as if he'd somehow outwitted me afterwards.
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Re: Post-completion

Post  Arrowave on Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:04 pm

I actually like every one of those ideas. I myself was even thinking that it would be cool to do an elven build. I think if we kept building more and more dwarven things, people would eventually get bored of the theme.

If we did a new build like the elven forest, we could just travel really far away in the current server and leave all our resources behind. I personally like the idea of one continuous world with different projects throughout.
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Re: Post-completion

Post  Brendanan on Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:43 pm

Well, seems we got a plan to make..... Later...

Now weve got some extra motivation to complete this city
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