Mine Cart System

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Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:41 pm

Mine Cart System

Curent map, not to scale.

Main Hub Destinations:
  • Dome Station
  • Loop Track (Future Atrium and farm)
  • Dual Exp Grinder
  • Curent mining location




Known problems:
  • under laggy conditions the piston launcher may shove you off the track. (The problem with death has been solved)
  • Storage carts still get stuck when entering an unloaded chunk.
  • Carts running too close together can cause bounce back or cart stops.




Last edited by Splated on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:46 pm; edited 15 times in total
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  3rdi on Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:46 pm

Sounds good, I love the minecart system at the moment, I think it works really smoothly, does anyone think it worthwhile to run a track up to the entrance by the way? it's a loooooooooooooooooong walk.

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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  spectrumwars on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:56 pm

3rdi wrote:Sounds good, I love the minecart system at the moment, I think it works really smoothly, does anyone think it worthwhile to run a track up to the entrance by the way? it's a loooooooooooooooooong walk.

Yeah, but probably no need to make it riderless-cart-compatible. Which the bottom end at least of the current system is not, sadly, at least not uphill. We'll use less gold and fewer power rails that way.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:36 pm

I got the sorter working but its very cramped. I would like to work on a better version but I need to know how we will use the mine carts.

Is it for transportation of miners or goods or both?
Do we want to link other locations via mine cart?

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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Mimodo on Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:59 am

I don't think we should waste materials on the tunnel up to the surface. There is a shortcut route, from dome to surface. I'll clean it up and make it safer later

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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Mimodo on Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:29 am

The current minecart thing works well Smile

The shortcut route is complete, and safe. You go up the waterfall (either side) in the zombie EXP farm. youll come out in a small room, and then you go up the ladder, and enter the door... Saves a lot of walking, and hunger

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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  sret on Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:59 pm

The new minecart system is confusing me. It's all good except when you depart from the storage room to the mine. Where exactly are you supposed to take off from? I had to walk into the track all the way up under that hatch and put my cart down.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Mimodo on Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:05 pm

You place your cart down in the storeroom. You then sit in it, an there is a button in front of your face. It actually works well, provided there isn't already a cart sitting on the track

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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:07 pm

Brendanan wrote:You place your cart down in the storeroom. You then sit in it, an there is a button in front of your face. It actually works well, provided there isn't already a cart sitting on the track

I want to build a launch pad for players I'll work on the train depot today, if no one objects.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  sret on Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:57 pm

Sounds good, Splated. Smile
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:46 pm


I was able to fix the tracks without needing extra booster, I took boosters from the down hill sending tracks to add to the uphill lines.

Also in future track layouts the 1 booster for every 6 normal tracks works if the booster is on the down/up hill slope. A down hill track with a 1/6 slope works great.


I also ran a test with sending 3 storage carts about 2 seconds apart up the mine line. The sorter was able to handle them just fine. how ever tried to follow them in a cart about 5 seconds later and I was able to catch up to the carts about half way up.


Last edited by Splated on Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:49 am

I'm thinking about a major redo of the train system, again. (I know I suck like that)

I'm going to edit the opening post to keep this as The main train thread.

Empty carts are causing a lot of problems i think they we should just do away with them.

I have 3 ideas for the track layout.

Main line
A pair of tracks that run from the first stop to the last. Riders must press a button to get of or they end up at the last stop.

Pros: Very Simple, uses less track, fast, can handle riders close togeather
Cons: Riders must press button to stop, no empty carts.



Central Hub
All lines run to and from a main station. Main station has complex destination selector.

Pros: Can handle Empty carts. can handle riders close togeather
Cons: Requires extra track, and extremely complex.



Station Hop
Same as main line but each stop on the line ejects the rider.
A button will push the player back into the launcher or they can get out.

Pros:Uses less track, long trips take longer, you can travel afk and not miss your stop.
Cons: stations are a little more complex, can't handle riders close togeather


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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  sret on Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:42 am

Hm, think I like the first option best. Hard to pick though.

However, don't make any drastic changes until we have gathered more gold.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Mimodo on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:41 am

How hard is it to press a button while moving? Cause I lag really bad on tracks in SMP... If not that, then option two... And it's more complex, but not too bad really. I've made a model of a 3 way button select station, with anti-clog protection etc. and I suck at redstone and Minecart stations compared to what I've seen from you

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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  spectrumwars on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:36 am

All of those are entirely too complex.

Go for the main line layout, but simply have the track do this at each stop: \__/

The slanted bits are powered rails. There's concealed redstone wiring inside the wall and under the floor connecting both powered rails to a button on the wall. You can go either direction, just plop a cart down on the slanted track, get in, and hit the button to go. Only mildly tricky part is you put the cart on the opposite end from the direction you want to go.

When a person in a cart comes to the stop, the unpowered booster rail acts as a brake and they stop.

If this is where they want to get out, they do. No silly dump-you-on-the-floor ejector, definitely no insane cactus-based system that destroys the cart half the time and hurts the rider every time. Everyone can and should carry a sword with them at all times anyways, just swipe the cart with the sword and you can pick it up, and it doesn't even damage the sword's durability, or the cart.

If this is not the stop you want to get out on, just push same button to launch you along the track in the same direction you were going before. Or get out and hit a second button on the side that just activates that end of the track, to send the cart to the opposite slanted track and get back in to go back the way you cae.

A lever attached to the same block as the button that launches carts can turn the entire station on or off long-term. If you want to send unmanned carts through, it takes a little setup to turn the stations en route to the "always on" position, but then all carts will just blaze right through (passengers can still get off by dismounting the cart, which works fine even when a cart is in motion...and if you use the sword-swipe method, the cart doesn't keep going without you).

This is the system I use on my single-player games and the other server I played on. It's not quite as fancy, but it has the definite benefits of simplicity, compactness, and not bumping your head on the 2-high ceiling when something goes wrong and you have to get out of the cart when it's still in the hopper.

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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Mimodo on Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:40 am

With minecarts, simplicity wins... We discovered that when developing a track for dwarf mining (despite the fact we didn't use it)

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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:51 pm

spectrumwars wrote:All of those are entirely too complex.

Go for the main line layout, but simply have the track do this at each stop: \__/

The slanted bits are powered rails. There's concealed redstone wiring inside the wall and under the floor connecting both powered rails to a button on the wall. You can go either direction, just plop a cart down on the slanted track, get in, and hit the button to go. Only mildly tricky part is you put the cart on the opposite end from the direction you want to go.

When a person in a cart comes to the stop, the unpowered booster rail acts as a brake and they stop.

If this is where they want to get out, they do. No silly dump-you-on-the-floor ejector, definitely no insane cactus-based system that destroys the cart half the time and hurts the rider every time. Everyone can and should carry a sword with them at all times anyways, just swipe the cart with the sword and you can pick it up, and it doesn't even damage the sword's durability, or the cart.

If this is not the stop you want to get out on, just push same button to launch you along the track in the same direction you were going before. Or get out and hit a second button on the side that just activates that end of the track, to send the cart to the opposite slanted track and get back in to go back the way you cae.

A lever attached to the same block as the button that launches carts can turn the entire station on or off long-term. If you want to send unmanned carts through, it takes a little setup to turn the stations en route to the "always on" position, but then all carts will just blaze right through (passengers can still get off by dismounting the cart, which works fine even when a cart is in motion...and if you use the sword-swipe method, the cart doesn't keep going without you).

This is the system I use on my single-player games and the other server I played on. It's not quite as fancy, but it has the definite benefits of simplicity, compactness, and not bumping your head on the 2-high ceiling when something goes wrong and you have to get out of the cart when it's still in the hopper.



I Like the dump in the floor system because if 3 people are heading for the mine, and this could happen, the carts don't bounce back the last guy. The cactus thing is just because I'm lazy and don't like smashing the cart I want it automatic.

I been experimenting with your V-track in creative and I came up with a way to use it. I placed the V between the 2 tracks so it always sends on the right hand lane. It work until a second car comes then the second user is bounced. I'll keep experimenting.



I also came up with a really cool 2 button cart launcher, very simple and can be placed any where above the main line. so we can build boarding only stations anyplace on the line.

I also built a button triggered stop I need to clean up the red stone but it works. but it has the same problem, if cars are too close together it will be unpredictable.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:59 pm

Here are the prototypes I have been working on.




The experimental V-Stop station.
I used spectrumwars V-shape with some changes to allow carts to be sent both directions and keep to the right Side. Then stairs to exit the stop. launching a cart is tricky as the cart needs to be positioned on the sides towards the top to launch correctly.




Quick Launch Front

Quick Launch Back

The Quick Launch works great. It needs to be 4 blocks above the track and slants are added to the track to propel the newly added car. as you can see from the back its very simple and compact could be added to a hallway with out much problem. This could be placed above the V-shape station to launch cars.



In-line Speed Stop.
Speeding along you press any one of the buttons and it will trigger the track to switch until you pass, then switch back and then dump you into the station. The system is very fast and I think it can handle carts very close together. I'm trying to compact down the wiring to take up less space.

Color coding stops may be a good idea, signs go by to fast to read.

Down side to this is if you miss your stop, or your afk, you will be sent to the surface or the mine.
the line could be made into a never ending loop from the surface to storage, and the mine could work like a stop but with a long track.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:57 pm

The V-stop can't handle 2 carts, one is always bumped out and sent early.


I was however able to shrink the Speed stop down to 12 by 10 by 8 including launcher. And the speed track can handle carts 1 sec apart with out miss routing.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:43 pm

The store room station is working.
To stop press any of the buttons on the red wool.

I had to change my original plans a tad, to allow for the track curves.

I'm working on the farm track now theres a launcher in the farm room but the stop will be in our old store room off of the main dome.

I'm thinking of building the surface stop around the water fall room area I'm not sure where the mob farm is in there so i could use someones help digging the tunnels.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:14 pm

I extended the track to the dome station.

How is the new button stop working for everyone?
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  spectrumwars on Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:28 pm

Splated wrote:I extended the track to the dome station.

How is the new button stop working for everyone?

After some hiccups, I can at least get the one at the main storeroom to work well, when coming from the dome or farm. Having the track go directly towards the button then veer away at it lets you face the button as you come.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Lorpius Prime on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:33 pm

Okay, I know I'm coming late to this discussion, and my understanding of rail system design is inadequate. But approaching the issue with the goal of creating the most effective logistical system, it is critically important to have some sort of primary rail hub/Grand Central Station in the same place as our storeroom.

It's about the only way to make our goal of having a sort of common public inventory for everything even remotely practical as the fortress continues to expand. Right now we've got several remote storage systems in different project areas (farms and mines in particular), and we've already seen how this can produce "lost" caches of items (50 blocks of iron up by the entrance). That's because it's not really efficient to check out items from the main storeroom and lug them all the way up to a project site every log-in. And as people move between projects to help each other out, or just due to fickle interest, items will get cached and forgotten in remote sites.

But if we can create a truly effective rail hub at the primary storeroom, and keep its rail lines up to date with terminals at each project site, it will be much easier to police the public inventory and keep a constant flow of produce into the storeroom, and needed tools and materials out to those sites.

Again, I don't have the expertise to really contemplate the sort of engineering which needs to go into realizing that sort of system. But since it is fairly critical to the economy we want, I think it ought to be fairly high priority for the people who do understand the rails, so that we can make sure that the fortress can accommodate that sort of infrastructure as it expands.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Splated on Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:25 pm

Lorpius Prime wrote:Okay, I know I'm coming late to this discussion, and my understanding of rail system design is inadequate. But approaching the issue with the goal of creating the most effective logistical system, it is critically important to have some sort of primary rail hub/Grand Central Station in the same place as our storeroom.

It's about the only way to make our goal of having a sort of common public inventory for everything even remotely practical as the fortress continues to expand. Right now we've got several remote storage systems in different project areas (farms and mines in particular), and we've already seen how this can produce "lost" caches of items (50 blocks of iron up by the entrance). That's because it's not really efficient to check out items from the main storeroom and lug them all the way up to a project site every log-in. And as people move between projects to help each other out, or just due to fickle interest, items will get cached and forgotten in remote sites.

But if we can create a truly effective rail hub at the primary storeroom, and keep its rail lines up to date with terminals at each project site, it will be much easier to police the public inventory and keep a constant flow of produce into the storeroom, and needed tools and materials out to those sites.

Again, I don't have the expertise to really contemplate the sort of engineering which needs to go into realizing that sort of system. But since it is fairly critical to the economy we want, I think it ought to be fairly high priority for the people who do understand the rails, so that we can make sure that the fortress can accommodate that sort of infrastructure as it expands.




You do make a good point.

With some minor changes I think i could build a central hub out of the store room station. With 2 designations
mine and dome. What other places would we want?



The dome station covers
farm, nether port, And possibly a quick track to the surface

Building track directly to each area is just wasteful.
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Re: Mine Cart System

Post  Mimodo on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:36 am

What i'd want is a simple destination selector to start. Having to hit buttons along the way defeats the point of a minecart ride, where you have the chance to sort your inventory, and eat some food, and talk to people.

A track to the surface is not necessary at all. Just a waste of track.

Another thing to keep in mind is to make sure that the tracks dont intervene with things, and are easily movable out of the way, if it's needed to be moved. We had that probelm with the lava falls in the tunnel to the store room.

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